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After all, if every economic issue is framed as a struggle between a hard-working white middle class and undeserving minorities, then workers of all shades will be left fighting for scraps while the wealthy withdraw further into their private enclaves - Barack Obama

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Concerned
Reply with quote  #1 
Someone on CNN just stated that the ground is shifting under Donald Trump. Is it possible that this president will not have the opportunity to run for a second term? Your tske.
Billary
Reply with quote  #2 
The tactonic plates seams are are coming apart under his fat bottom his lease on Pennsylvania Avenue may be revoked by 2018.
DMK
Reply with quote  #3 
In Sierra Leonean politics the courts can disqualify the winner and hand the election over to the loser. What are the odds of a president Hillary Clinton before the end of the year?
Zorro
Reply with quote  #4 
DMK,

American politics is different.  Even if it is proven that the Russian interference shifted the elections to Donald Trump, there is no way we are going to have a Hillary Clinton presidency.  In the worst case scenario, Trump will be impeached and vice president Mike Pence will become president.
ABK
Reply with quote  #5 
Many democrats believed that SCOTUS disqualified Al Gore and declared George W. Bush the winner. How is that different from the take of Zorro?
Sage
Reply with quote  #6 
That is not the case in Bush v Gore. I have never heard any Democrat frame it quite that way. The Gore team sued for a recount in a few districts in Florida that were heavily Democratic, rather than the entire state. The recount in those districts did not change the outcome, meaning it did not move the state of Florida into his column so Bush was the winner. Ironically, a few months later, when all votes were counted for recording purposes, Gore had won the state of Florida. But he was a fool and did not call for a recount of the whole state.

Trump will not be impeached because there is absolutely no evidence he has committed an impeachable offense. There will be no such proceedings while the Republicans are in control of congress anyway. Even if he were impeached, that does not mean he would be removed from office. Bill Clinton was impeached by the house but not charged and completed his term. Nixon resigned. The impeachment talk and Russia nonsense is just to keep liberals focused on Trump so the Democrats can make gains in 2018. These diversion are meant to keep the topic of the Clinton campaign's corruption out of focus. The content of the emails that were leaked, the dastardly deeds against the Sanders campaign with the collusion of the DNC, Clinton's prostitution to Wall Street, her views of the common people and how she speaks one way in public but will do another as policy, not to mention the use of the Clinton Foundation as a pay-to-play front... that's what the Democratic party does not want to talk about. So a conspiracy narrative that keeps focus on Trump and Russia is kept alive in the media, while the Democratic party shifts further to the right to try to win the support of suburban middle class Republicans who voted for Trump.
ABK
Reply with quote  #7 
If the Dems are keeping this Russian thing alive don't you think they are getting more than enough help keeping it alive from Trump himself?  But I will say this, let the Russian investigation proceed. There is too much smoke not to suspect fire. Trump could have just release his tax information and this baby could have been history. 
Spectator
Reply with quote  #8 
"Ironically, a few months later, when all votes were counted for recording purposes, Gore had won the state of Florida. But he was a fool and did not call for a recount of the whole state." - Prof Sage

Prof, I always wondered about this. I'd really appreciate it if you could provide an authoritative source that provides evidence of what you state (which I do not doubt)...so I could use it as ammo in future discussions.

Would FL's electoral state law have allowed a recount of the entire state if Gore had requested one?

I agree with your view that The Donald has not done anything that warrants impeachment. In the UK bookies had the odds for impeachment hovering around 60% recently.
Spectator 007
Reply with quote  #9 
Forgot to add 007 at end of my handle in post above
Masoila
Reply with quote  #10 
"The Donald has not done anything that warrants impeachment..."  Spectator 007


Specky,

How do you know that?  Why has a special counsel been selected?
Spectator 007
Reply with quote  #11 
@Masoila: A GOP congress will not impeach Trump. Appointment of the independent counsel will help the erratic Trump. Wetin make Trump tan so ba?

Read or listen to what Prof Alan Dersowtz says about it.
Masoila
Reply with quote  #12 
Specky,

I read an article by Prof. Dershowitz a couple of days ago.  Dershowitz has always been soft on Trump.

Impeachment is not a legal process but a political one.  But what if the Special counsel's work ends in a negative finding about Trump at a time when the Democrats have recaptured Congress?

I believe that there many things that have not yet come to light.  Let's wait and see.
Spectator 007
Reply with quote  #13 
@Masoila: You made good points but do you think the democrats will recapture the White House if a Trump continues acting like this? Don't you think GOP candidates will wisely distance themselves from him in constituencies where it is necessary for them to do so?
Masoila
Reply with quote  #14 
Specky,

Let's put it this way, it does not matter how Trump acts right now.  He can behave like a Mother Theresa or a Pope Francis if he so desires.  Fact is, the Russian investigations are an albatross around the neck of the Republican party.  The Republicans will lose the House in 2018 and the White House in 2020.
Sage
Reply with quote  #15 

Specky, here are links to coverage from The Guardian from January 2001, and a disputed claim from the Miami Herald (reported by PBS) which concluded that Bush would have won if the overvotes were left out in Palm Beach County. It was disputed, but I thought it did come down to Gore by a few hundred votes on subsequent recounts.

There are probably published books about the election by now though, I don't have titles but you could probably search in Amazon. Hope this suffices for now.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/media-jan-june01-recount_04-03/

Sage
Reply with quote  #16 

And another from CNN in 2015 that covers the long dispute over who won. It comes down to what votes were excluded:

 

"Taken as a whole, the recount studies show Bush would have most likely won the Florida statewide hand recount of all undervotes. Undervotes are ballots that did not register a vote in the presidential race. This goes against the belief that the U.S. Supreme Court handed the presidency to Bush, or took it away from Gore.

The studies also show that Gore likely would have won a statewide recount of all undervotes and overvotes, which are ballots that included multiple votes for president and were thus not counted at all. However, his legal team never pursued this action."
 
Spectator 007
Reply with quote  #17 
Thanks Sage

Whatever happened to the idiot who was responsible for approving the "butterfly ballots" use in Palm Beach County?
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